Recently I?ve been noticing that the membership has been dropping off like some fruit flies up in this piece. I think this is fine, because well if you want that ?next level type shit?, you have to be ON some next level type shit. Naw mean son? What I mean is that if you really want liberation instead of being content to live in the dream state, you have to want it badly enough, and by ?bad? I mean with the same sense of badness that?s equal to LL Cool J?s hilarity in the music video of the same name. For those of you who aren?t ?in tha know?, as they say on the East side where I reside, peep this: http://youtube.com/wa...

Of course this also requires letting go and surrender when the time is right, but here?s a piece of the fruit of the tree of knowledge broken off for that azz:

?Thomas Merton, the 20th Century Trappist monk who was also keenly interested in Eastern wisdom, said: ?The only desire that is not a sin is the desire for God.? Now, knowing that God is synonymous with enlightenment, awakening, or true inner freedom, you must want it more than you want anything else. That?s the deal. You must want it more than you want money, power, fame, sex, relationships, or any of the seemingly infinite number of things human beings seek in order to find security, happiness, and fulfillment in their lives.

To desire these other things is not ?wrong? in any moral sense, but it is a ?sin? as Merton points out. The original Greek meaning of sin is ?to miss the mark.? A sin, then, is any action or behavior that takes us away from the only place where authentic, lasting peace and happiness can be found: within the depths of our very own being, within our God-nature, if you like.

That is why awakening, or enlightenment, continues to elude most people. They have been seduced by the media, by movies, television, and popular magazines into thinking that happiness lies ?out there? somewhere. Into thinking that happiness lies in having more money, a bigger house, a more expensive car, a brighter smile, a thinner body, a prettier girlfriend, a more successful boyfriend, or whatever.

There is nothing wrong with having any of these things in and of themselves, as I indicated. It?s the attachment to wanting them that creates all the suffering. If you make these things the primary focus of your life, you will never find the deep happiness and freedom that is your inner nature.?


That's from Jim Dreaver. Actually I wouldn?t say that ?you?ll never find it?. Some people have ?found it? quite accidentally, and as Adya says ?you can be a total bozo and get a taste of awakening?, that is, even if you?re ?clowning? around. Get it? Oh that?s right?I SAID IT!!!!!!!!

Heheheheh, but he?s right though, in general it?s true. Anyway, that?s what?s the haps on the craps, so shake em up, shake em up, shake em up, shake em!

To end here?s a quote from Nisargadiggitydatta:

?You are never without a Guru, for he is timelessly present in your heart. Sometimes he externalizes himself and comes to you as an uplifting and reforming factor in your life, a mother, a wife, a teacher; or he remains as an inner urge towards righteousness and perfection. All you have to do is to obey him and do what he tells you. What he wants you to do is simple: learn self-awareness, self-control, self-surrender. It may seem arduous, but it is easy if you are earnest. And quite impossible if you are not. Earnestness is both necessary and sufficient. Everything yields to earnestness.?

~Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Word life son.

From: Anne
Sent on: Wednesday, July 18 at 11:06 PM
IMO, the craving for enlightenment often has the effect of driving it away and making it impossible to live IN the eternal present. The "chop wood, carry water" life isn't fireworks and magic. Sometimes the craving for enlightenment is really a craving to escape the chop wood carry water reality of physical life. IMO, any humongous desire for what you believe you don't have is misguided.

Anne Beversdorf
Counselling Astrologer
Western and Vedic
www.stariel.com
[address removed]

Right, I think that's true, but the opposite is also true. Remember, reality is paradoxical because it exists beyond thought which tends to be black and white, especially when it comes to something like opinion and belief. That's why in Zen they say "don't seek the truth, just cease to cherish illusions (or opinions)".

The Buddha's life story is a great example. After both polarities he overheard "if the string it too taught it will snap, and if it's too slack it will not play".

There's surrender and there's also as Nisargadatta put it "earnestness". Both are equally valid although they may appear at different times.

In the end it's really about what one knows to be true within themselves. It's about that internal relationship to the truth, and that's strictly within one's own realm of experience. I think it's that inner voice that knows, that inner knowing or wisdom, intuition or whatever the word that's used, that which lies beneath the emotional body. But to be connected to that you have to be relatively free of the mind, that's why some religious people or atheists who claim to have "the one truth" are disconnected from that knowing despite what they claim, too much mind.

And of course we always have it, we ARE it. That's why we don't seek a state but seek the seeker. Through every experience we've had we have always been aware. Always been that which we really are, that is unless of course we black out during an alcohol binge or whatever, and end up in some ungodly or strange situation, but that's another story.

My favorite question for inquiry is "What am I beyond thought and emotion?". For me at least this makes it really easy to see that thought and emotion arise within the spaciousness of awareness, and also that there's nothing prior to that. So because this is true and because those things and the body can be made objects of observation, they must not be "you". You then must be what is looking, that is the presence itself, or the "spirit" in spirituality. And that's ridiculously simple isn't it? But easily overlooked when it itself is what is looking, and it can be made into something WAY more different and special when the mind gets a hold of something like the word "enlightenment".

The reason I sent out this message is because I have an inclination to wake people up from what Adya calls dreamland spirituality or just the dream state in general, or a state where spirituality just "isn't that important" when in fact it's "ultimately" the only thing that's important, not that other things aren't relatively important, but all good things come out of that freedom. And it's not about believing in this or that and solidifying thought, even through experiences one might have which are based on certain beliefs. It's about the opposite, first what's observable through direct experience? Holding an open mind and finding the truth in that. So in that sense it's very scientific.

Another thing is that I want to state the necessity of awakening. Humanity is running out of time, and if I feel like I want to talk some smack then by golly beJesus that's what I'm going to do. With all the chaos in the world someone's got to be pushy, sometimes you've got to get all up in people's faces and shake them up a bit, and I'm very rebellious by nature anyway, so sometimes that's what I can be drawn to do. If you're a musician you have to be real, have to be pure. Not to be offensive of course, but it seems to me that sometimes you've got to stimulate some buttons....errrr, well nevermind. Anyway, it may be that languaging like this and a very direct approach can be counterproductive, but if that's the case then so be it. And honestly, it's not up to me of course. Only time will tell if humanity will be able to attain transcendence from the mind identified state, so we'll see. But the other side of the story is that our lives will all end anyway, and we're all a just a blip in the stream of consciousness, or as the Buddha said "Your life is like a flash of lightening across the sky". Consciousness will find another way to express itself in this reality if human beings don't make it as a species. See both of those are true, it doesn't matter and yet it does.

Anyway, as Forrest Gump said "That's all I have to say about that".


Easy now,

D

From: mark
Sent on: Thursday, July 19 at 11:07 AM

David & Anne,

So we're already enlightened.




> Right, I think that's true, but the opposite is also true.

If something and the opposite are true, they are both illusion, maya, as
they depend. Let them both go. The observer of these is already the truth.


> reality is paradoxical because it exists beyond thought

paradox? Thought exists within reality. Milk exists within bottle.



> There's surrender and there's also as Nisargadatta put it "earnestness".
> Both are equally valid although they may appear at different times.

Yes, and they appear spontaneously.



>
> In the end it's really about what one knows to be true within themselves.
> It's about that internal relationship to the truth, and that's strictly
> within one's own realm of experience. I think it's that inner voice that
> knows, that inner knowing or wisdom, intuition or whatever the word that's
> used, that which lies beneath the emotional body.

Yes


But to be connected to
> that you have to be relatively free of the mind,

Possibly "that" is already relatively free of "mind" and "you." You ARE
that already.



Always been that which we really are, that is unless
> of
> course we black out during an alcohol binge or whatever, and end up in
> some
> ungodly or strange situation, but that's another story.

That's just the mind-body drinking, does not change "I am THAT."
Consciousness and dreams are quite similar, known only in consciousness
tho.



>
> My favorite question for inquiry is "What am I beyond thought and
> emotion?". For me at least this makes it really easy to see that thought
> and emotion arise within the spaciousness of awareness, and also that
> there's nothing prior to that.

Yes, thought and emotion still reside within consciousness, they are
conscious states, and come and go.



> Another thing is that I want to state the necessity of awakening.
> Humanity is running out of time,
But the other side of the story is that our lives will all end
> anyway, and we're all a just a blip in the stream of consciousness, or as
> the Buddha said "Your life is like a flash of lightening across the sky".
> Consciousness will find another way to express itself in this reality if
> human beings don't make it as a species. See both of those are true, it
> doesn't matter and yet it does.

Hmmmmm, Heap big duality here kemosabe. Maybe carry 'em wood and chop 'em
water.

Have a good week,

Mark

Hi Mark,

Enlightenment can be a bad word. We are all conscious, in fact we are all consciousness itself. What's necessary is to realize that, and by realize I don't mean on the level of thought, but to realize it on the level of experience itself. Ironically, the best way I've found to do that is through self-inquiry or in Advaita they say "using the mind to go beyond the mind", which is why it's paradoxical, not dualistic or illusory.

And this is what I'm talking about. It's certainly not that something and its opposite can't be true at the same time. That is what's meant by non-duality. They can both be true because reality is paradoxical. It exists beyond black and white thinking. It is factual that striving to be enlightened can drive it away. I know this personally. That's why Jung said "what you resist persists". It is also true that if you're not "earnest" it can be quite impossible as Nisargadatta says. "Everything yields to earnestness". But see the other thing about this earnestness is that it's not a forcing or manufacturing of motivation. One must find that passion within one's self to be free. You can't fake it, although you can get caught up in the striving. So in a sense maybe it's not so paradoxical after all. Passion isn't striving, it's just being passionate about something, although it may even look like striving from the outside. Either way this is the point.

Yes the observer is the truth, but forget all that language. It's about direct realization, unless that's what you're talking about.

As far as being free of the mind goes I don't think it does anyone any good to be told they're consciousness if they're strongly caught up in the mind. Maybe it's not always true, but I've found that most people who are highly mind-identified don't want to hear a goddamn thing, even if the approach is non-forceful and not self righteous at all, not coming off as a "know it all" which is mind identification itself. After all non-mind identification is the end of the egoic self, and that's what it fears. All life forms fear death, but ironically if we want to be free we have to die before we die, and the most important death I think is to die to one's illusions about who one thinks they are, which despite sounding simple and not a big deal can be quite scary in real practice. I was simply making the point that people who are highly caught in belief claim to have the truth, just like others who claim the same thing but have different beliefs, but it's just a truth based on thought, which is not the truth, it's just a bunch of thought. Reality itself is the truth, and it's especially important to realize the truth of "what you are".

I don't know what you mean by consciousness and dreams being similar, unless you mean the waking mind identified state and sleeping dream state. The way I look at dreams is that dreams are the subconscious mind firing off conditioning which is experienced by consciousness when dreaming. So whatever has been loaded as programming into the subconscious will reflect the quality of content in the dream state (I don't mean the waking dream state of being identified with thought ALTHOUGH THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS AS WELL!!!). It also seems to me that deep sleep might be when consciousness is at rest within itself completely, meaning "no mind" is happening. The unmanifest is completely one with the unmanifest, the nothing is completely one with the nothing and there's no phenomena to perceive. That's what comes to mind for me at least.

I don't understand what you mean by a big duality heap, or what that has to do with mundane everyday life. It is true that humanity is running out of time. It is obviously observable with what is going on in the world and the level at which technology has gotten to. The mind has created this technology, but at the same time if human beings can't disidentify from the mind, and serve the whole instead of the "me in the mind", it will end up being disastrous. The technology which has been created with this mind will end up being humanity's demise because humanity has identified itself with the tool instead of with what it actually is, as we know: awareness itself. I've also heard at least Eckhart Tolle and Adya talk about this as well. http://www.youtube.co...

The other side of the story is, well what I've already said. We are all going to die, we will all just be a blip in the stream of life anyway. But even if we don't make it I imagine it's true that consciousness will keep moving through the evolutionary stages and eventually express itself in a life form that is self-aware. The dinosaurs got served, but here we are today, millions of years later. And that's what life seems to be evolving to, that is for a being in physicality to become self aware, to know itself as what it really is: the unmanifest awareness that manifests in and permeates this physical reality. That's another paradox, there's the unmanifest and the manifest, but they're not separate, more like interwoven. I like Thich Nhat Hanh's term of inter-being. Everything inter-is with everything else, even at the physical level of dualistic apparent opposites.

So these are paradoxical, not dualistic. Duality is one or the other, the mind exists in duality, paradox or reality is that both exist within the whole, exist at the same time within the whole. This is the whole meaning behind the word non-dual. Like Adya says it doesn't mean "not duality", it means "non-duality", that realization of oneness that exists when the mind isn't cutting things up into this and that and little pieces like it does. Of course that's just what it does, so it's not wrong that it does that, that's its function and that's what it knows how to do. The point is to not reference one's identify from that because if we do we suffer, we're separate and not aligned with reality, and as Byron Katie says "when you argue with reality you lose, but only 100% of the time. Of course there is duality as well, male and female, black and white, self and other. Not "not duality", non-duality.

Are you too caught up in trying to attain the absolute or see things as non-dualistic, or do it mentally? Put your nose to the grindstone and force yourself out of duality cause duality is seen as "bad or wrong"? People can become very hard on themselves, bad or wrong, wrong for who or what I am, wrong for being mentally caught up in duality, "not spiritual enough", or project it "out there" etc. Of course that's just the ego coming in through the back door, fighting with itself because it exists on resistance. That's what I've found in people who tend to be highly intellectual, especially men. Of course I also have a strong intellect, and can get caught up in the intellect too. It's both a strength and a weakness like everything, a double edged sword. So if so, forget all that and just realize yourself as the presence in which everything arises, especially thought and emotion...body too. Maybe you already have though and I just don't understand your languaging. I know Adya says that in the end you'll thank Maya (or the veil of illusion, identification with things that aren't "you") because it's through that that one awakens. Great point, thank god for Adya.


Easy now,

D

From: mark
Sent on: Friday, July 20 at 10:34 AM

David,

It's certainly not that something and
> its opposite can't be true at the same time. That is what's meant by
non-duality. They can both be true because reality is paradoxical. It
exists beyond black and white thinking.

All of the above is just mind chatter. We both know the truth is beyond
all this.




Passion isn't striving

Agreed.

, it's just being passionate about
> something,

yes, and what is passionate, the passion, the thing passionate and the
about are all the same, arising spontaneously.


> Yes the observer is the truth, but forget all that language. It's about
direct realization, unless that's what you're talking about.

we both know that's what we are talking about


All life forms
> fear
> death, but ironically if we want to be free we have to die before we
die,

fully agreed


a truth
> based
> on thought, which is not the truth, it's just a bunch of thought.

agreed, true (hahahahahaha),

Reality
> itself is the truth

agreed



> I don't know what you mean by consciousness and dreams being similar,
unless
> you mean the waking mind identified state and sleeping dream state.

Yes, that is it exactly.

The way
> I look at dreams is that dreams are the subconscious mind firing off
conditioning which is experienced by consciousness when dreaming. So
whatever has been loaded as programming into the subconscious will
reflect
> the quality of content in the dream state (I don't mean the waking dream
state of being identified with thought ALTHOUGH THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS AS
WELL!!!).

They are the same. Have you read Bohm's "Thought as a System"?


It also seems to me that deep sleep might be when consciousness
> is
> at rest within itself completely, meaning "no mind" is happening.

yes, in the dreamless sleep. We need to be careful with terminology here
as generally "no mind" is a quasi-conscious-type state (the body manifests
action). In sleep action of the sleeping body is not manifesting to other
body-minds. It is a natural state and all again just arising in Reality as
maya.

The
> unmanifest is completely one with the unmanifest, the nothing is completely
> one with the nothing and there's no phenomena to perceive. That's what
comes to mind for me at least.

Again, it is tricky as the sleeping body is not manifesting action to
other mind-bodies. As far as that body though, agreed.


It is true that humanity is running out of
> time. It is obviously observable with what is going on in the world and
the > level at which technology has gotten to.

> The other side of the story is, well what I've already said. We are all
going to die, we will all just be a blip in the stream of life anyway.

Hmmmmmm, you present two sides again. Well, 300,000 people die every day
in the world just of natural causes.

Maybe the question is running out of time for what? There is only the
manifestation in your mind of all this. There is no one but you and the
rest of us are your creation. In my world there is no running out of time.
Bodies will cease to contain the life force.

What happens once "we have run out of time?"

>
> So these are paradoxical, not dualistic. Duality is one or the other,
the
> mind exists in duality, paradox or reality is that both exist within the
whole, exist at the same time within the whole. This is the whole
meaning
> behind the word non-dual.

par?a?dox

?noun 1. a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or
absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth.
2. a self-contradictory and false proposition.
3. any person, thing, or situation exhibiting an apparently contradictory
nature.
4. an opinion or statement contrary to commonly accepted opinion.

In non-duality there are no paradoxes as all rests within reality.
Consider 2 people looking at a dice and seeing a 2 and a 6. Paradox.
Looking from reality all is contained: 123456. A dice. Plastic cube and 2
people. Etc. all within consciousness.

Reality sees the whole. I invite you to look from the whole, reality,
which mans there is no one to get caught up in the concept paradox, or to
use that word, denoting a limited state of understanding.

> the presence in which everything arises, especially thought and
> emotion...body too. Maybe you already have though and I just don't
understand your languaging. I know Adya says that in the end you'll
thank
> Maya (or the veil of illusion, identification with things that aren't
"you")
> because it's through that that one awakens.

agreed,

have a good weekend,

Mark

Hi Mark,

Sure the truth is beyond all words, but it's not just mind chatter, to me at least, who knows what anyone else is thinking. I find words are vitally important. Why have satsang if words are just mind chatter? I wouldn't have pursued, and ultimately failed through striving like Adya, at the spiritual game without stumbling upon Charlotte Beck's Everyday Zen. Curses to her too for writing that book, hehe. But words are vitally important, to me at least, maybe not to the lucky ones like Byron Katie, and of course certainly not to be confused with reality, but that's just obvious. Of course they can be misleading too, but in the end just providing that initial stimulus is worth it, in my mind. Apparently Adya started Zen practice because he read the word "enlightenment" in a magazine and decided he wanted to find out what that was.

I don't really understand the language at all about the sleep state.

As far as running out of time, humanity make not make it as a species if it doesn't get its act together. Again, I'll just let Adya do the talking, but I fully agree with what he's saying. Eckhart Tolle says something similar in one of his books, maybe it's A New Earth. http://youtube.com/wa...

As far as there being just me and everyone else being a projection, I don't understand that at all. Byron Katie talks about judgments of others being a projection of an internal state that gets focused outwardly even though it originates inwardly. But most certainly there are other human beings in this universe with their own individual experience of reality. There is only the one presence arising as the many in the world of forms, but that doesn't mean that others don't exist, which is to me what that language seems to suggest.

As far as paradox goes I think it's an extremely valuable and useful word. There is only the one and yet the world of apparent opposites that we get caught up in, male and female like I mentioned. We use language to point to things in reality, and it seems to me that you might be thinking about it too much. The first definition is totally what I'm talking about: a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or
absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth. I'm not worried about having a limited state of understanding anyway, and I certainly don't see it in the same way. And the spiritual game isn't about knowing more (more in the mind) or being "more enlightened" to be superior, in the end it's about knowing that you don't know and being humbled, or simply seeing that there is the SAME presence manifesting for all regardless, even if, you know, things are seen through more clearly as a result and you're champion of the Tibetan debate team, or whatever. Also, this may just be semantics but as Adya says, "If we are speaking of real transformation, real freedom, the only thing that liberates is the truth. Truth is where it's at and truth is very different from understanding."


Easy Now,

David H.

From: marilyn
Sent on: Friday, July 20 at 10:23 PM

David,
Regarding being "intellectual" about attaining
enlightenment someone on a yahoo group wrote this:

Or maybe you are saying you realized things after you
'Philosophized' your
thinking mind to a stopping point? Then 'It' was
there, and you realized
that it always was?


Enjoy,
Marilyn

Hey Marilyn,

I personally think the intellect is great. In fact, it's necessary to attempt to explain experience and communicate at the level at which humans do, but yes, this is about going beyond the mind. We can't go back to before it, although in an attempt to get free of the mind lots of people temporarily do so in various ways like with substances etc.

It seems to me that philosophizing would just lead one in circles forever, although maybe eventually it would be so tiring that it would lead into exhaustion instead. Cause you know, the words come from experience or that inner knowing, not the other way around right? Actually I was just watching this one http://youtube.com/wa... Be still and KNOW, not "know and be still". exactly!

And as far as the mind goes, I really like inquiry. Ramana was a great gift. I think I've mentioned that my favorite question at the moment is "What am I beyond thought and emotion?" A very simple and very direct pointer.

David,

But words are vitally important,
> to
> me at least, maybe not to the lucky ones like Byron Katie, and of course
> certainly not to be confused with reality, but that's just obvious.

If words are not to be confused with reality then they cannot be vitally
important.


Of
> course they can be misleading too, but in the end just providing that
> initial stimulus is worth it, in my mind.

agreed


> I don't really understand the language at all about the sleep state.

See below - you & others

>
> As far as running out of time, humanity make not make it as a species

Agreed, so what?


> As far as there being just me and everyone else being a projection, I
> don't
> understand that at all. Byron Katie talks about judgments of others being
> a
> projection of an internal state that gets focused outwardly even though it
> originates inwardly.

Yes, you have it there exactly. This includes even them appearing to you
there as a person. This includes everything seen - even "my body" for me.
If I am not conscious I cannot say anything about beyond me, thus it is
all projected from me. This is in agreement with Vanesa Stone too.

But most certainly there are other human beings in
> this universe with their own individual experience of reality.

This we cannot know. Agreed this appears to be the case. This is maya and
must be transcended.

There is
> only the one presence arising as the many in the world of forms,

exactly.

but that
> doesn't mean that others don't exist,

again, cannot be known without me projecting both them and the thought
that they exist.


> As far as paradox goes I think it's an extremely valuable and useful word.

I understand that you do. Are you clear it is a concept about two other
concepts? See how you are getting further and further from the immediately
perceived reality? This is thought and reasoning, mindflow. On stopping
the mindflow reality appears more clearly.

We use language to point
> to
> things in reality

more to point to things manifest

And the spiritual game isn't about knowing more (more in
> the mind) or being "more enlightened" to be superior, in the end it's
> about
> knowing that you don't know and being humbled, or simply seeing that there
> is the SAME presence manifesting for all regardless

Agreed, what is left when this you/knower disssappears?
... and this knowing and seeing (states of understanding) differs from the
below:

"If we are speaking of real transformation, real freedom, the
> only thing that liberates is the truth. Truth is where it's at and truth
> is
> very different from understanding."
>

Truth is a realization. Not arising from/in logic/thought.

Have a good day,

Mark